The Way out of Darkness: Vital Public Theology

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A friend of mine was discussing with her neighbor—the neighbor had gone to a baby shower, six baby showers in the past year for all her nieces. None of them have husbands; some of them have multiple babies by different fathers. These are white, working class people who a generation ago were in church. How did this happen so quickly?

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But somehow this has got to play itself out, and we have got to be able to offer reason and light and love and structure to these people. MOHLER: You mention Anthony Kennedy, the Supreme Court Justice in the Casey decision; I was actually at the Court and heard the oral arguments for that case and was still not prepared for the decision that was handed down, the majority opinion by Anthony Kennedy, in which he offers this absolute sine qua non of personal autonomy and individual self-determination as the only great moral good.

But this is a revolution that cannot deliver on its promises. They threw out autocracy, they threw out the the church and tried to found a new utopia on completely secular values. And it was bound to fail, the Soviet Union was. But look at all the human destruction that took place until it finally did fail. But the destruction.

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And of course there are so many prophets who saw this in their own way, and many of them only were speaking to a part of it, like Neil Postman, but a very profoundly true part of it. And at the beginning you mentioned the fact that when Benedict was witnessing the Roman Empire after it fell, so to speak, life was still relatively comfortable, certainly by contrast with other places at the time, and I think this is where we are now.


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One of the stories I tell in the book is about going to the Benedictine monastery in Norcia, a small town in the mountains of central Italy, that was where say Benedict was born. He was a son of the Roman governor. Napoleon closed it down in , but in the year some American monks went there and reopened it. Well they had an earthquake there last year; the first one that came made their monastery and their medieval basilica unstable. Well, another earthquake came, leveled the basilica, leveled every church in town. But the monks survived, and they survived because they read the signs of the first earthquake.

And not a single person in Norcia, when the most powerful earthquake to hit Italy in 30 years, not a single person in Norcia died because they could read the signs and got out of there.

The Way out of Darkness: Vital Public Theology

Get out of the city, so to speak, establish your place, your shelter, your monastery in a safe place so you can be there for the rebuilding. They did not run off to the woods and and go away from people entirely. They still were there to serve the people, but they were serving them from a place where the roof was not going to fall on their head and take them down with it. Nuance that a bit in terms of where you are in the book. DREHER: I appreciate the chance to clarify this, and in fact my own thinking has been clarified through exchanges with my readers, through talking with Catholics and evangelical friends, and sort of working through these ideas.

But it does mean doing what these monks in Norcia did initially. They were living right there in the town, but they were behind monastery walls.

The Way Out of Darkness: Vital Public Theology

What does that mean for us? It means as lay Christians, we have to build some kind of walls to separate ourselves from the world so that we can continue to go out into the world and minister to people and be who Christ asked us to be. We need to have, for example, Christian schools. Not to shelter our kids from any bad idea that comes from the outside, but in order for them to be nurtured and to build that resilience within so when they do get out into the world, they know who they are, they know what they believe and why they believe it.

And more importantly, they have participated and built practices necessary to live out this faith and to get the faith in their bones. But this is the youth group culture. All it gave them was emotion and having fun. And I think this is why so many millennials have trouble accepting the traditional Christian view of homosexuality, because they look at the way their heterosexual parents and aunts and uncles and everybody around have completely messed this thing up, and they may be on the third or fourth marriage.

So when you go to a millennial, they may not be able to hear your argument and deal with it in terms of reason, but if you show them beauty that points to Christ, that points to the reality of God, or you show them someone who is serving the poor are doing heroic work serving unwed mothers, they can see the light of Christ through that goodness and it may lead them ultimately to the truth.

It is a way of life. Were not, again, called to be monks. But we need to have more order in our lives so that we can offer a coherent, not only argument to the world, but a way of life that is fruitful and joyful. Does evangelical Christianity, as you understand it, have adequate resources to be sufficiently thick? My life is shaped around the chanting of Psalms and on all kinds of sensual ways that embody the faith.

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But for me as an Orthodox Christian and me as a Catholic, the faith had more traction and it drew me in closer and closer. This has completely changed his life. He had this realization, and he works for religious liberty and religious liberty activism and has come to see the enormous threat facing the Christian church in America.

I do not believe evangelicalism has sufficient resources for a thick enough Christianity to survive either this epoch or much beyond. The identity has to be, as I see it, in the best way to describe the conversation between us, as historic Protestant. In other words, it takes historic Protestantism, in other words, I am deeply, unashamedly rooted in that which we mark in terms of a th anniversary right now. I do believe in the necessary reformation of the church and what the Reformers taught.

But modern evangelicalism lacks the theological substance either of the Reformation or the Reformers because the Reformers themselves, Luther and Calvin amongst them, were not at all hesitant, even as they affirmed sola scriptura and did so with full heart and soul, to go back and cite Augustine. They knew they were standing on the shoulders of those who had come before, and they sought to make that very clear. They stood on the creedal consensus of historic Christianity and thus confessional Protestantism, I would argue, is and must be—can be—sufficiently thick.

But evangelicalism?


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  8. Well, not so much. And to hear you say that really encourages me. What do you tell your students and those you lead where they can find these resources within historical Protestantism? Where should they go? It was the belief, as Calvin said, that Christ has never been without his church, but that that church must be distinguished by several marks and by the preaching of a gospel that they defined under context of fire in terms of the solas and justification by faith alone, grace alone, Christ alone.

    On what authority? On the authority of Christ through Scripture alone. That is to say, it comes accompanied by sanctification, it comes with the fullness of the Christian faith and looking at the Reformation backwards we come to understand its continuity with classical Christianity and we would make the claim all the way back to Christ and the apostles, without apostolic or Episcopal continuity.

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